Date: 8/19/2008 10:45:00 AM
From Authorid: 11176
You know I don't even watch to the summer games. I perfer the winter games and ice skating, dancing and pair skating  |
Date: 8/19/2008 10:50:00 AM
From Authorid: 64197
I so agree with you on this. Did you know that they have 4 judges/countries judging gymnastics that have never produced a medal winning athelete? This is a big deal to the coaches/athletes. During the team meet, there was a big stink while the competiton was going on and the head judge was on the phone with the OC (I think it was) and some scores were changed and judges warned to watch what they were doing, I don't understand why that didn't happen last night. Clearly there is a problem and it needs to be fixed, some of these athletes are being cheated out of what they have trained so hard for, and their dreams.  |
Date: 8/19/2008 11:25:00 AM
From Authorid: 64566
I have one word for you which is my only opinion. The one word is ****POLITICS**** I hardly watch the Olympic at all. Changing the subject here , I used to watch the Westminister Dog Show every February. About 20 or 25 years ago they made good choices and good judgement. Even the dogs themselves were more professionally trained back then. I made a comment one day to a former friend of mine that I didn't think the judges were doing as well or if it was just me. She told me that there had a lot of politics involved the last few years so now I don't watch the Dog Shows as seriously as I used to. Also not too long ago there was a NBA basketball tournament playoff going on and a referee got in trouble and charged for falsely calling a bad play on a player and throwing him out of the game. Come to find out the referee was trying to win a gambling bet in favor of the other team. Now you know what may be going on. I'll see if I can find out more about the basketball referee and post it on your reply.  |
Date: 8/19/2008 11:32:00 AM
From Authorid: 16845
This brought on by last nights incidents? Hubby told me about it. (I had gone to bed) Seems so unfair...  |
Date: 8/19/2008 11:49:00 AM
From Authorid: 64566
Ok , I have two messages here for you. I instant messaged my oldest nephew who works with ESPN Sports , for more information. Here is the site on the referee. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3509440
This is a message on his reply to your post. Chris: yeah... the Olympic gymnastics judging has been bad this year, I think
I only watched one competition
there was a scandal last Olympics involving a French judge who was paid to give good scores to a certain country. |
Date: 8/19/2008 12:16:00 PM
From Authorid: 15157
I could not agree more Gingie! I saw our men gymastics perform a perfect performance only to see them score lower than 'China'. Also there are descripancies as to Chinas smallest girl gymnastic teams ages. They had unknowingly described the ages of each girl in Chinese Newspaper...as being 14. I do not like the new scoring system being used. What is equalled as a ten? 14? 15? 16? I am very disappointed in this years Olympics.  |
Date: 8/19/2008 12:23:00 PM
From Authorid: 15070
Ginger-I have been boycotting the Games this year. I hear things that make me happy (the female swimmer in her 40's taking Silver, and the young Man winning 8 Gold.). But when I saw the Chinese (Female) gymnasts on the news, there is no doubt they are under aged. Gone are the days of Nadia Comaneci, and Olga Korbut, ~IMO~  |
Date: 8/19/2008 12:49:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 998
Purple Rose, I'm in total agreement with you. The OIC seems to be in shambles if they are changing things right in the middle of competition. I mean, the rules are the rules .. in poker or the Olympics.  |
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Date: 8/19/2008 12:51:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 998
Becky, nope my thoughts here aren't just due to last night .. but due to this new judging procedure. It was suppose to resolve the judging controversy .. not heighten it. |
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Date: 8/19/2008 12:59:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 998
Clifford, isn't it sad that officiating is tainting all these sports. You must miss the excitement of the dog shows. Kiki, yep yep yep .. things are turned around for sure. And the under age gymnasts are a whole nuther issue ... LOL. Don't get me started on that .. :-P~~~ |
Date: 8/19/2008 1:31:00 PM
From Authorid: 21435
Poor planning, if you ask me and as you said, Ginger. The real losers are the athletes who have devoted long, arduous, hours to their training. Way to say it, lady. Write on....  |
Date: 8/19/2008 1:57:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
I always thought that a "stuck" landing was a necessity for a medal performance, but that vault of the Chinese girl where she so visibly fell just blew my thinking out of the water. God Bless.  |
Date: 8/19/2008 2:12:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
There is a head judge that goes over the scores before they become official. The thing is that like it or not much of gymnastics is subjective. Shawn Johnson is a power house, she lacks the finesse that many of the Chinese and Nastia posess, so she gets marked down on things like that. Many of them take ballet to get the grace. Some judges prefer power, some prefer finesse. Many things come into play, hand placement, how long you hold a handstand on the uneven bars, balance checks on the balance beam, taking steps on landings, landing upright or bent over, feet apart, hip and shoulder alignment, height on tricks, some judges pick up on it, others don't. I do think that it was dumb that they didn't award two gold medals like they do in other sports. Most of the differences were tenths of a point. There was some bad judging but overall I didn't think it was that bad. Diving has the same problem because it's also very subjective. I don't know if anyone saw the men's synchronized diving but on one dive, Japan gave the divers a 9 on execution and another country gave them a 4. That's a five point difference, how does that even happen? Diving had far worse judging than gymnastics in my opinion.  |
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Date: 8/19/2008 2:14:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
The reason for that Deb is that her overall difficulty starting level was way higher than other gymnasts. So taking off a 5th of a point for the fall on the landing, but taking her difficulty level and execution scores and adding them together still gives her a higher score than other gymnasts whose starting values were a point or two lower. |
Date: 8/19/2008 3:06:00 PM
From Authorid: 54444
pretty disappointing--the judging, but the talent was phenomenal  |
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Date: 8/19/2008 3:27:00 PM
From Authorid: 15157
Oskana is an incredible woman! Simply amazing! |
Date: 8/19/2008 3:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 42945
Yes I have been following all of what you mentioned Ginger, and yes, I did think the scoring was very inconsistent. I was so happy to see the 33yr old lady come in with silver, she so deserved it. I have to admit that the scoring was terrible with the young girl (I forget from what country)where she didn't get a score at all with her second routine, I felt so sorry for her. I thought the whole judging system was very unfair in Gymnastics...  |
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Date: 8/19/2008 5:12:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 998
Since the judging system now seems to be that two scores are combined for the ending score. The first one is the difficulty start value of the skill or routine. Second score is the execution which begins at a 10.0, and the judges deduct for errors in performance. It is obvious to see where deductions happen in a missed landing or not enough twists or flips in the skill. However when ballet and finesse come into the judgement .. there has to be subjective judging brought into play. There are just too many different forms to dance and ballet to accurately decide if every hand gesture has the finesse of ballet or not. Even floor routines require a dance section or element, but each acrobatic pass diagonally down the mat does not have any ballet in them. They are strictly running and performing gymnastic elements with a good landing. The International Olympic Committee-OIC cannot have the extreme difficulty in these routines, and all the finesse of a ballerina in the allotted time they give each participant. Some of both, I understand .. but it seems they are asking for the impossible then deducting scores when it is not given. |
Date: 8/19/2008 5:14:00 PM ( From Author )
From Authorid: 998
Some members of the gymnastics community feel that the new Code of Points has resulted in an increase in injuries because the difficulty score is weighed too heavily, convincing gymnasts to attempt very risky skills.
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Date: 8/19/2008 5:42:00 PM
From Authorid: 61013
They're even investigating most of the chinese competers in the olympics because noone thinks they're old enought to compete or something like that.  |
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Date: 8/19/2008 6:48:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
All the elements use finesse, even a floor pass, that comes in to how you carry yourself, toes pointed, hips, etc. They've had the start value for a long time, it was just all in one score. If you didn't have a tough routine your starting value was 9.5 and deductions made from there. So, the change hasn't affected the way a start value happens, they just split the two scores. My wife was a competitive gymnast for years, and one of the requirements as with the Chinese and other countries is years of ballet because it makes a better all around gymnast in the way they perform their routines. |
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Date: 8/19/2008 6:55:00 PM
From Authorid: 11240
I do understand that, Base, it just seems, to me anyway, that the difficulty scores need to be offset by the difficulty in which it took a gymnast to complete it. If it was so extremely difficult to do that a gymnast doesn't even look like she has the ability to pull it off, it is counterintuitive to make her able to medal based on the difficulty of what she was TRYING to do vs. based on the finesse and grace (or lack thereof) at which she DID do. God Bless. |
Date: 8/19/2008 8:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 42461
I don't see what the big deal is with the little girls from China. Even if they are 13 who cares. If they are 13 and winning gold medals how great is that! It shouldnt matter what age you are only how good you are. I mean should we start kicking people out of the olympics if we think they are too old?  |
Date: 8/19/2008 8:30:00 PM
From Authorid: 53961
Yeah to Shawn Johnson from West Des Moines, Iowa!  |
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Date: 8/19/2008 8:49:00 PM
From Authorid: 36704
A missed landing doesn't mean they didn't complete the routine, just like a fall off the beam or uneven bars doesn't mean they didn't complete the routine. All are just certain elements that make up the whole. |
Date: 8/19/2008 9:35:00 PM
From Authorid: 35720
I think it was unfair too.  |
Date: 8/20/2008 1:04:00 AM
From Authorid: 3835
I have not been watching this. I do not have a television, Lol..  |
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Date: 8/20/2008 6:11:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
The missed landing on that vault looked like the whole timing of the vault was off. It looked like, yes, she tried a difficult vault, but didn't pull it off. It is a continuous action so I don't even see where they break it down to a missed landing only being deducted for when everything leading up to that missed landing contributed to the missed landing. JMHO. Anyhoo, congratulations to all the USA team, even those that didn't medal. Their composure and grace under pressure makes them winners in my book. God Bless. |
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Date: 8/20/2008 6:23:00 AM
From Authorid: 11240
"(E)ven those that didn't medal INDIVIDUALLY" is what I meant to convey . . . God Bless. |
Date: 8/20/2008 8:07:00 AM
From Authorid: 8024
it isn't easy being a judge sometimes..sighs..c  |
Date: 8/20/2008 1:08:00 PM
From Authorid: 22188
I totally agree, Ginger!!! I can't tell you how many times I've stood up out of my chair in disbelief of a score this year. The new system seems to be even more flawed. I also think technology is really causing some troubles. I've seen routines watched over and over looking for some minute mistake, but rarely have a seen examining of footage that led to a deduction NOT being taken away. Other competitions aren't allowing that. In diving, for instance, the judges have only what they saw with their own eyes...not what the cameras saw.  |
Date: 8/20/2008 2:02:00 PM
From Authorid: 37150
I've noticed last night in the women's gymnastics on the balance beam, a girl fell off of it, but she still got a higher score than another girl who didn't fall or even really had to balance check. What's that about?! (I'm leaving country details out on purpose)  |
